I’m about to start a series of blog posts in the near future on traits and habits of a successful youth minister, and as I was brainstorming for those posts I got to thinking about the nature of a full-time professional youth minister. And, just like almost any other church staff position, youth ministry really has some qualitative differences from other professions, especially when you start thinking about compensation.
Understanding youth ministry as a job that pays us to do certain tasks leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth. Take a look at what should be part of every youth minister’s “job description:”
- Pray
- Study the Bible
- Teach the Bible
- Love and spend time with students
- Love and spend time with parents and other adults
If youth ministry is a job and we are getting paid to complete the above tasks, then we are essentially getting bribed to pray for, teach, and love the people in our congregations. I actually had a youth ask me once, “So they pay you to hang out with me?” As you can see, this might not be the best way to think about youth ministry compensation.
I prefer to think about youth ministry compensation not as a salary, but as missionary support. Missionaries don’t get paid to spread the gospel. They receive money so that they can eat and have a roof over their heads, and that money frees them to devote themselves fully to spreading the gospel in another culture. In the same way, we don’t get paid to hang out with kids, we don’t get paid to pray for kids, we don’t get paid to study our Bibles. We get paid in order to free ourselves in such a way that will allow us to devote ourselves full-time to the above tasks.
Now, because I approach youth ministry with the above mindset, it is much harder for me to argue for raises and compensation packages in the typical manner. What is a fair level of compensation? The old rule of thumb is to compare yourself to a public school teacher with the same level of experience and education, but I wonder how appropriate that is. Because, by approaching compensation as missionary support we are really looking for money that will provide a basic standard of living, not to get the church to pay us what we are “worth.”
Does the public school teacher comparison still apply? How do you understand and approach compensation for ministry?
love it man. great out look and way to define ‘compensation’
I’ve always thought that the whole compensation thing is one of the weirdest parts of working for/at/with/in a church. It’s like I’m trying to get paid a ton, but I also don’t care.
ALSO: it starts an empoloyee’s time off at the church in a horrible way. I was offered a really low number by my church, initially and my church is in one of the wealthiest suburbs of ohio. So the first thing I am asking of my soon-to-be faith community is for a couple more thousand dollars a year. I felt weird, they felt embarrassed at having offered me such a low number, and my time there starts off on the wrong foot.
ALSO: i’m glad you posted on this because I was just chatting with my fiance about compensation. I told her, “When I start a church, every employee is going to get paid the same.” (i wanted to vent this, but can’t on my own blog – right now.)
If compensation is as you’re describing it – merely a way for a church to free a person to devote their time and talents to a certain ministry – then there is no reason why the sr. pastor makes more than the youth pastor (unless their are kids involved) or the office assistant or the janitor. If compensation is simply about providing food/house/clothing/etc, then why would the numbers be different at all?
Interesting suggestion to make compensation the same for everyone. That is obviously the implication of my idea about compensation freeing people to do ministry.
I was about to respond by suggesting that we should have salary schedules like schools and offer different amounts based on people’s years worked, degree, etc., and realized that I was getting into the same trap. If I am really serious about church compensation being a means to free people for ministry, you are exactly right, it should be exactly the same for the whole staff.
Sounds good. But after some time, it costs more to free my time for ministry. If all this is is freeing time for ministry, why have any expectations of competence? Are there ministry goals? Counseling can be understood as a “paid friend” but it can also be understood as a helpful guide. Of what value is the guide part? I think a great deal. I also structure compensation as a way to affirm ministry and to retain people who are reliable. If I want to to teach people how to be in a relationship with Jesus and how to engage the problems of people with the Word, then I want more than just your time.
Competence does play an important role, and would be hard to navigate. But aren’t missionaries exceedingly competent at their jobs and still very underpaid according to how much their time is “worth”?
I’m just trying to figure out a way to fairly compensate church professionals without falling into business models where the more money we bring in to the church means we get paid more. Part of this blog is just talking out loud and getting some feedback.
I appreciate the thoughts.
You’ve touched on a crucial and complex issue for anyone affiliated with a church.
If a person is called to a mission-minded congregation (a big “if”) it makes sense that a church worker’s compensation should reflect the values and priorities of the community into which they are called. Ministry is not only about being freed, but also about being empowered in the best possible situation. How difficult would it be to make $75K in a food stamps community…or $25K in a wealthy suburb? Perhaps a church should look at the median income from the congregation (ballpark figure) and pay all of their staff accordingly.
There are inherent problems with this model (like the fear of the best pastors wanting to go to the wealthiest congregations, etc.)…but, theoretically, I think this is the best way to equip people for ministry.
In an ideal setting, church workers could sit down individually with congregational leaders (mutual ministry team, personnel committee, etc.) and draw up a realistic budget for the church worker. This would provide the employee with a built-in web of support and accountability for their own personal stewardship. The conversation would take into consideration things like:
– Health care
– Salary
– Housing
– Living expenses
– Ministry-related expenses
– Educational costs (past & future)
My last comment (sorry for such a lengthy reflection) is that the old structure of comparing youth ministry compensation to teacher pay is bogus. I graduated college with an education degree, and I continue to substitute teach a few days a week in a local high school. After 8 years of dabbling in both worlds, I have concluded that the two professions have almost nothing in common (aside from working with young people). In most communities, teachers work on a 190-day contract. Good luck getting away with working 190 days as a full-time church worker! On the flip side, the frenetic pace of a teacher’s daytime schedule and lack of prep-time is the opposite of a church worker’s…and vice versa on evenings and weekends.
Thanks for all your excellent, thought-provoking blog posts. Your recent post about seminaries being irrelevant still has my head spinning…in a good way!
Eric, thanks for jumping in. No need to apologize for long comments. I’m a fan of substantive discussion.
The schoolteacher comparison isn’t necessarily because work loads are the same, but that education levels are often similar and they provide a reasonable expectation of cost-of-living for a given area. Almost no one argues that teachers are overpaid (except for youth ministers!), so the idea is that if you go below that you are putting your staff in a position to not be able to afford to live in that area. I’m curious, would you say that an equally competent youth minister should, on average, make significantly more or less than a comparable teacher?
I hear what you’re saying about the rationale behind comparing youth minister compensation to public school teacher pay…I think it has served the profession well in terms of helping congregations to think of youth ministers as professionals (and not just college kids who haven’t figured out what they want to do when they grow up). Teacher pay has been the benchmark of my salary “negotiations” in both youth ministry jobs I have held. I just think it’s no more of a helpful comparison than a parks & recreation program staff, a piano lesson instructor, bus driver, or an in-home nanny. Ministry professionals are called to a unique set of expectations, which requires a unique compensation structure.
If a church is located in a community where teachers are among the highest paid professionals, then a church worker should make less than a teacher…but if a teacher is on the low-end, a church worker should make more than a teacher. Pastors are called into specific, local congregations, which means their compensation should reflect a median range of the members of their specific, local faith community.
The other prevailing issue is one that you touched on elsewhere — synod guidelines. Though a helpful tool in some cases, compensation guidelines for rostered leaders wield very little power. If a congregation chooses to pay a pastor below guidelines, the synod staff can (and will) advocate for that pastor…but the power ultimately lies in the congregation. In that sense, the Salary Survey put forth by the ELCA Youth Ministry Network is just as useful as the synod guidelines. (This is very different from the way teacher pay scales are structured…no union, no state-mandated minimum salary, etc.)
All is to say, there still isn’t a “perfect” way to go about this. I appreciate you allowing issues such as this one to percolate among the blogosphere. Keep up the great writing!
Youth pastors tend to be underpaid, and part of it is that the church gets away with it. This is a stewardship issue. If people tithed, there would be no problem in paying what would attract quality people doing a great job. Part of the job of a senior pastor (and I am one) is to advocate for good salaries for others working on behalf of the church. I’ve battled congregation leaders who have said that our associate pastor negotiated her salary when she arrived and she has to live with it. I disagreed and moved her up faster than my salary increases.
One of the issues in the ELCA that affects people like me is that I’m a non-ordained, non-rostered professional. In my synod, we essentially have no guidelines for how to be compensated, in writing at least.
In congregationalist churches, where I was born and raised, there is more of an even playing field, I think, among senior pastors and other associate staff.
I commend you for putting the associate pastor ahead of you when it came down to budget time. That’s one way to encourage longevity at a particular congregation.
Great topic Matt! The concept of salary/compensation for ministers of any stripe is always a weird one. I like the approach of discussing it as a way of freeing the person up for mission work.
As a youth minister, I think we are typically underpaid when compared to the expectations of the position- obviously we should be praying, reading the Bible, planning lessons/sermons/whatever one wants to call it, spending time with students and families. Additionally, there is often an expectation that we will fill in whenever/wherever there is a need (“Hey youth pastor, you aren’t doing anything- come help me move these boxes” I’ve had this happen to me numerous times). We also are often expected to attend games/plays/concerts etc. of our youth. Then there is the administrative side- budgets, logistics, correspondence, etc. And all this on a typically tiny salary.
Factor in education/training costs (that is, if a church wants to hire an educated/trained person to work with youth- quite a few don’t care), plus cost of living- food, housing, transportation, health insurance, utilities, clothing. I don’t see any way that any reasonable church would offer any employee such a low compensation package.
I’m not in ministry to get rich. I’m here because I want to work with youth and aid them as much as I can in their spiritual growth. But the fact is I’ve got tons of student loan debt, plus the basic expenses. If I can just get those covered, I’ll be more than happy.
Sorry about the ranting- I get a little carried away when it comes to how youth ministers are often treated by churches.
I love the idea about paying each church staff member the same (of course, acknowledging the fact that perhaps not all members have the same financial needs- kids, health issues, etc). It says a lot in these times where I know several pastors who are making 6 digit salaries.
Wow – I’m looking for a place to begin here. For starters, I appreciate where you, Matt, and these posts are headed. Erik, glad I was able to meet you and Jake in at Reclaiming Paul in St, Louis. Have enjoyed reading your thoughts since then. Corey, Earl hope to bump into you some time.
So I don’t post too long, let me cut to the chase with a few assumptions.
I. No youth pastor I know went into the ministry because he/she thought it would be the most lucrative option.
II. Many churches are notorious for underpaying their youth pastors. This continues a cycle of numerous problems.
A. High turnover rate
1. Due to lack of respect perceived by the youth pastor
2. the low salary only allows younger, less experienced and at times, “unqualified” youth workers to take these positions.
3. Or a youth worker will eventually take a better paying position
B. Disgruntled youth pastor
1. It is indisputable to me that among the reasons that I love being a part of my current church (3 years now), is that I feel more of a pastor than an employee. My salary is not as high as much as my previous ministry (there for 5 years), but between the parsonage and various other aspects of my package, I feel cared for during this season of my life.
2. Loyalty and morale become an issue when a youth worker perceives that he/she is not cared for.
III. At first chance, a youth pastor will attempt to “move up” the pastoral chain.
A. This is not healthy …
1. for it negates the idea of calling, talent, skill set.
2. in some cases, leads our students to receive the “left-overs”
B. May put a youth pastor as a senior pastor in a church before he/she is ready for it.
C. May not be suitable for the church that is foolish enough to hire him.
Maybe antidote is more helpful here. I knew a talented youth pastor that loved working with students but the salaries he received in his respective churches were not adequate for his family. He requested a salary increase from his church but after an insignificant raise, he felt that it was time to move on. During the search, he found a church that was interested in hiring a young pastor as their lead pastor of a smaller church. After he moved, he realized that he was not ready for these responsibilities nor was his new church really ready for him. He made a decision based on salary that left his previous church without a youth pastor for an extended duration and only lasted at this church for a little over a year. Did God’s will really play out here or is the moral of the story to better compensate our pastoral staff?
IV. If the youth pastor is married and has children, his presents a whole new set of issues that I don’t feel like getting into.
Possible solutions:
I am not sure equal salaries are realistic but I completely agree that the disparity between say a senior pastor and a youth pastor is a little much.
I am a believer of longevity in ministry. Local churches could set up some kind of scale that “rewards” (for lack of better word) in various ways (not just purely financial) for staying.
In continuing with the model of missionary support, most missionaries actually live above the community standard. Certainly this is easier since the American dollar obviously does more in less economically developed countries but to see this only as a dollar and cents thing is terribly short-sighted. It communicates to the outsider that this family is valuable which amplifies the message and mission. We could communicate similar ideas in our suburbs, rural towns and inner cities.
Lastly, I think this is an important discussion. On a blog post, I know this has the tendency to appear a sin of entitlement or appear materialistic and consumed by greed but many people like myself are not seeking contracts comparable to pro-athletes. I want to send my kid to college and not stress out over car repairs and weddings that require travel. It is not only the pastors that need to live by faith, but also the congregations that have asked them to lead and shepherd them. Thus, they may have to sacrifice more and give biblically in order to do so.
Well that went long – lol – thanks for listening, and thanks for starting this line of thought. It was helpful for me to read your thoughts and think through some of my own (which is among the purposes of this medium).
Great thoughts. And, I think this is the first ever comment in outline format–congrats.